Edge Forum

Getting a job after leaving education may seem daunting, but what if you were in a position where finding work was nearly impossible? Debbie Scott is the Chief Executive of Tomorrow’s People, a national charity which works with people with multiple barriers, helping them break the cycle of unemployment and getting them into work. She says “As a teenager, I wasn’t thick, but being at school didn’t inspire me so I found a lot of ways to ‘entertain’ myself.”  If this sounds familiar, read on to find out how Debbie bucked the trend and worked her way into a charity's top job, after leaving school at 16.  

What do you do?

At Tomorrow’s People, we sit down with people who are unemployed for a number of reasons - maybe they have a mental illness, or have had issues with drugs - and we help them to find a job; it’s tough work, because to help someone move forward who has been involved with drugs is very difficult.  Other people we help may have got into trouble and have had a custodial sentence – and it’s a pretty brave employer who will take them on.  Other people may have lost someone in their family and find it hard to cope, so there are all sorts of barriers they have to get over before they can get and keep a job.

Now you’re at the top of the chain, because you’re the Chief Executive – what is different about your position compared to being lower down, just working?

Getting to the top of the ‘food chain’ isn’t a bed of roses!  When you’re in my position you’ve got to look at the bigger picture; my principal job is to make sure that the resources are in place to enable Tomorrow's People to deliver it's services. The other thing I think about is that today we’re giving services to unemployed people, but what are we going to do tomorrow?  Tomorrow’s People is very innovative and it keeps changing.  I also work on getting the organisation known so I spend a lot of my time meeting people in government, in the corporate world and in the media.  When the government decided that it was going to commit to helping all 18-24 year olds get a job, the BBC rang me for an interview at 11pm!  Despite the late hour, I was delighted that organisations like the BBC value what Tomorrow’s People says. 

What was your journey to get to where you are?

At school and I was pretty obnoxious.  I wasn’t thick, but being at school didn’t inspire me so I found a lot of ways to ‘entertain’ myself which were pretty unconventional.  I wasn’t really so bad; I was just bored.

The only thing I could do with any degree of pride was play a musical instrument - I played the French horn in the school orchestra and people used to say I was good at it.  One day I met someone from the Salvation Army.  I was messing around with my mates on the street and the woman said "You shouldn’t be doing that" I told her to get lost, but then she asked me if I could play an instrument and all my friends said "Yes, she can!"  So she invited me to play in the Salvation Army band.  That same woman from the Salvation Army also encouraged me to do my O-levels (GCSEs).  I wasn’t bothered, but she took me every day to college in her car and took me back and made sure I did my homework. I ended up doing quite well and realised that I wasn’t such a dud after all.  I was so lucky, this lady was very, very good to me.

Eventually I decided to become a Salvation Army Officer – this is equivalent to a Vicar, so I did most of the things that Vicars do, dedicate children, marry people, etc. It was like running a business as I was responsible for people of all ages, for the finances and overall work in the centres where I worked.  I did this for about 5 years and then decided to move on.

I thought I needed to move on a bit so I decided to get a different type of job; I happened to read a small article in the paper about a Trust being set up and jobs going there.  The deadline had gone to apply, but I rang anyway and they told me to come for an interview the next morning. I became one of first people Tomorrow’s People employed and that was 25 years ago.

You said you didn’t like education but do you think education has helped you?

There are no two ways about it, my teachers were good.  I can read and write and I’m articulate.  There’s nothing about it that stopped me doing anything, but for me it’s more about my personal experiences than the education I got.  Somebody showed an interest in me and I responded positively.  People always respond to feeling valued by somebody. 

If you ask me what I would have done differently, I would have gone to university.  My dad said to me, "People from our family don’t go to university", but I would have loved to study Politics at Cambridge.  You make decisions in life and sometimes some are better than others.  The more experience you’ve got, the more you’ve got on your hard disk.  Not going to uni never stopped me. People do look at your qualifications in the recruitment process which is understandable, but I wished they looked more at who someone is, the values that they stand for and what drives them.  They should look for the things that matter in addition to qualifications.

What have been the challenges in your life?

I’ve always had the attitude that once I learned to do something well, I could go on to do the next thing. As soon as people feel like they’re winning and believe in themselves, they can go on to do the things they want to. Loads of the people we deal with have no aspirations or ambitions for themselves.

What sorts of people have helped you? Who do you admire now?

My teachers were good.  I’ve gone back and thanked them.  I’ve gone back to show them what could be achieved.  I can remember teachers in my school turning themselves inside out to get something out of someone, and I’m not sure if people today do that.  I don’t know if there is any approach to educating the 'spirit' of a young person and actually asking "What is it that makes you tick?"

You didn’t set out to run a business – how do you do it?

When you run a business it’s not about you.  People think it’s all about you, but you must never ever let anybody think it all revolves around one person; you’ve got to have a good team. If I was running a school, I’d get all the students in and tell them why they’re there. Then I’d explain to them that they're going to learn this and this and why - so they can get the skills they need for the jobs they want to do. There needs to be a fundamental review of the way we help unemployed people - not so that we stop looking after people, but so that we are better at helping more people to get and keep a job. 

What drives you?

I don’t know what it is, but it’s this magic in people, it’s their soul, something that says "I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do that" - that’s what drives me.

Who do you think is your role model?

That’s an interesting question, because you change your views as you develop.  The lady from Salvation Army and her husband helped me and the values they held resonated with me.  The man who started Tomorrow’s People was Alan Shepherd, now Lord Shepherd.  He’s quite special too.  When there were the Toxteth riots (race riots in inner city Liverpool in 1981- Politics Ed.) Alan said "If these people were working they wouldn’t have the time to riot, they’d have money in their pockets and could make decisions about their life that most other people do". Everyone says the government has to sort out the problem of unemployment and disaffection, but they can’t do everything - we all have a reponsibility to sort it out.  My dad thought it was wonderful that I could speak to this ‘very important’ man.  Lord Shepherd was a great role model for me, and the people that are on my Board of Trustees now have a wealth of experience and make a huge contribution to the work of Tomorrow’s People. It's wonderful that I can go to the Trustees for advice, seek their views on an issue and even say "I have got this wrong, can you help".

What does success mean to you?

If you work in the voluntary sector, it is a struggle, you’re always chasing people for money.  If what you’re doing is ‘good works’ people think you can do it for less. One thing I have learnt is that by calling us the 'Third Sector' and ‘not-for-profit’ we sound weak!  If we don’t cover our costs and generate a surplus for reinvestment, we are in trouble. Success is about getting somebody into a job and them still being in it a year later.  Getting a job is one thing, keeping it is another.  Success for me is that Tomorrow’s People is viable and sustainable and helps to turn peoples lives around.